Problems with RPS 3D PDF

[Al]

Using SK 6.0.515

Seems to work well on very small file size models of less that a 700K and reduces model size in the pdf by about 40% but over a meg forget it you program malfunctions all over the place.

We had one simple model at 2.6mg that when and (If ) we could get it to convert ( took over 10 minutes on Win XP pro SP 2 with Gghtz Pentium R4 / 2 gig Ram ) and ended up at over 12 meg pdf if it did not crash the system

try to simplify the settings or change to xml export and the system totally crashes and claims out of memory but its CPU use is incredible even with a X700 Radeon pro

Definitely not ready for prime time

maybe you get a commission from Adobe to tease users up to there $1200 a seat version which sorta defeats the point

Let us know when all the bugs are out

We will post this on the forum when its up again

( : ( : ideapete

Thank you for taking the time to send us your comments.

No, this is not a very good solution for large model. Usually we have problems at about 15meg or so, though, and not 2.5 meg. But this can be deceptive if your model has multiple instances a lot of components. (We have to send each instance separately which can make the file very large.)

If you were exporting edges (one of the options) this can make the PDF file very large. (Especially if you have smoothed object - we have a bug where we are sending too many edges on smoothed objects.)

Also, we can have problems with large (in disk size) images used as patterns which are not really needed.

If you do try Adobe Acrobat 3D and get better results, let me know. (There is a 30 day free trial). If they create a PDF file of more than about 6 megabytes, then it will be too large to handle well or to send to users.

If you like, you can send us the SKP file and we will try it here and see if there is anything unusual about it.

[Al]

Thanks Al, great response

Here is the file

( : ( : pete



I think this model is just going to be too complex.

488

It has over 2000 component instances in it. which is what makes the U3D file (used by Adobe) too large. My machine ran out of RAM before it was able to convert the model.

489


It would be nice if 3D PDF worked as a viewer for models this large, but I think you are going to have to work with just subsets of the model. - For instance the exterior shell, or the detail of a room.

[Al]

Hi Al

We managed to get it to work with the settings selected at default which looked like

Model defined ( but the pages did not come through )
Standard

Orphans only ( Include not checked )

When we tried one of the other settings such as XML Exporter we got an error and the file would not finish translating and the same when we moved edge lines to all or include

I know there are some things in the model we can chuck such as the furniture and people but another thing we saw as you pointed out is a tremendous export of edge shapes most again not needed

Would be nice to have an " Model optimized feature " sorta click this button to optimize your model settings as this model takes about 8 / 10 minutes to convert just to try the options and see what best. The collapse of the XML export is puzzling though.

If you can recommend some that would be great

Many thanks again for your fast response

( : ( : ideapete


The edges are necessary for a good view of cabinetry, etc. which view much better with visible edges.

We are using a "kludge" to get edges into U3D - we make a small face out of each edge. However, as I pointed out he current version sends over too many edges.

We hope to be able to send the edges directly to U3D as edges of faces. U3D is supposed to be able to support his but we haven't been able to get it to work.

The XML exported is included for cases in which the regular exported fails. But for large models, either exporter may require too much RAM to be usable.

[Al]

FYI

On another machine with a better graphics card and faster CPU we tried a version of Adobe Acrobat 3D and boy what a clunker it ends up at 2057 meg install, took 7 tries to even find the skp file and when it did finally import, or copy tessellation and triangle problems overkill which took 20 mins to process turned it into a terrain map with totally lousy reproduction. I am sure we could tweak and adjust but the whole purpose is for fast document collaboration using PDF as an interpreter

I hope you find a optimal solution because so far your product is better than the Adobe version even with the headaches

ideapete

Even with small models, we found Abode Acrobat to be very difficult to use.

We are putting out another collaboration tool - eZ Meeting - with the help of one of our partners - hopefully later this week. You may want to take a look at it as well. But it will have similar problems with large models.

[ideapete]

Based on some feedback from Al Hart Renderplus ( who was really on the ball a rarity in this industry ) we took apart the problem model and here is some preliminary feedback which will probably move into our best practices.

In short the immediate problem is the detail and edges in the furniture models, great model input but way to many edges. its a repeat of the 2D face the camera and the multi 3D increment edge bloat problem

Here is the basic data

Model tested 05 Midwest Concept Master

1. Master model size = 2530 kb / edges = 286 K ( Thousand )

2 . Eliminate people = Model size = 2517 kb / edges 283 K

3. Eliminate people / furniture = Model size = 1345kb / edges = 97K ( saving 189 K edges which are the primary conversion problem and 1185kb file size and all these increments can be shown on a single isolated model segment )

4. Eliminate people / furniture / lighting system = 1332 kb / edges = 80K

We tested a conversion with (4) and it works fine and we will add people and lighting also to verify , the 1332kb converted into pdf file size 4084kb with renderplus but it manipulates really well ( we haven't figured out how to transfer page views and sections yet but we are working on it )

This little program 3D PDF looks like a real gem and only occupies 26meg installed ( the pdf file increase size once converted is standard bloat 300 / 400 % from adobe ) but it works fine for our project collaboration.

The PDF converter Adobe Acrobat 3d however is far to cumbersome and when installed takes up over 2gig and the results are to put it politely very disappointing and not worth following up. It a shame that adobe doesn't get their act together and instead of starting a file type war with Autodesk came up with some real decent project collaboration services but that just makes more opportunities for companies like renderplus who when they really hit the jackpot will naturally get sucked up by Google.

In short before anything else keep the edges below 100,000 and it works great

More testing on the settings layers views textures section component and eliminations coming

( : ( : pete

[ideapete]

last post should have read keep the edges below 100,000 and components below 1000 - 1200 ( we will test higher components with small number edges and report ) and it works great

( : ( : pete:) http://forums.renderplus.com/images/smilies/smile.gif
:)

[Al]

This little program 3D PDF looks like a real gem and only occupies 26meg installed ( the pdf file increase size once converted is standard bloat 300 / 400 % from adobe ) but it works fine for our project collaboration.

The PDF converter Adobe Acrobat 3d however is far to cumbersome and when installed takes up over 2gig and the results are to put it politely very disappointing and not worth following up. It a shame that adobe doesn't get their act together and instead of starting a file type war with Autodesk came up with some real decent project collaboration services but that just makes more opportunities for companies like renderplus who when they really hit the jackpot will naturally get sucked up by Google.

I appreciate this comment more than your first comment:

Definitely not ready for prime time

Keep working with us and perhaps we will make this successful after all...

[Al]

If you have been following this thread, you may want to visit the related thread on SketchUcation:

http://www.sketchucation.com/community/forums/suc/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1316